DUNBARTON PLANNING BOARD
WEDNESDAY, MAY 18, 2005
TOWN OFFICES – 7:00 P.M.
The regular monthly meeting of the Dunbarton Planning Board was held at the above time, date and place with Co-Chairman Brian Nordle presiding. The following members were present:
Brian Nordle, Co Chairman
Alison Vallieres, Secretary
Mert Mann, Selectman
Kenneth Swayze, Admin., Planning and Zoning
Terry Swain, Alternate
Brian Nordle, Acting Chairman, verified with the Secretary that the Public Notice for the Meeting had been posted in three public places throughout the Town and published in the Concord Monitor for one day. In addition, it had been posted on the Dunbarton Web Site.
APPROVAL OF PREVIOUS MEETING MINUTES: WEDNESDAY, APRIL 20, 2005:
Terry Swain made a motion that the minutes of the Wednesday, April 20, 2005 meeting be accepted as written. Michael Poirier seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously.
7:00 P.M. - PUBLIC HEARINGS:
NEW HAMPSHIRE TRADITIONAL HOMES (MICHAEL POIRIER) (G4-3-2) PROPOSED SIX LOT SUBDIVISION LOCATED ON GRAPEVINE ROAD IN THE LOW DENSITY DISTRICT IN DUNBARTON, NH (05-003)
At this point in the meeting, Michael Poirier stepped down from the Board because of applicant status.
In addition, Kenneth Swayze stepped down from the Board because of abutter status.
Terry Swain stated he would like to state that he does work for Mr. Poirier on occasion, but that he does not believe that this would affect his decisions with regard to the application. Asked if any of the Board members had any problems with his acting on this application.
All Board Members felt this was not a problem and he should sit on the Board with regard to this application.
Kenneth Swayze presented a Status Report (prepared by James Marcou) on the NH Traditional Homes Project. (attached)
Jacques Belanger, Surveyor, presented an updated plan showing the reconfigured driveway locations.
The following items were noted:
1. Site Walk conducted on 5/10/05. Driveway locations discussed. (Brian Nordle and Mert Mann were present on the Site Walk).
Discussion at the Site Walk which included Jim Marcou concerning possibility of moving one of the upper driveway to the lower location.
Ended up moving the second driveway location between 6 and 7. The easement will serve both Lots 7 and Lot 6. There presently is 290 feet of sight distance. (The Town requires at least 200 feet of sight distance for driveways. )
2. Jacques Belanger stated they had spent time with Mr. Gendron and Sue Bye regarding their concern about runoff.
Have agreed to put a 20 foot no cut buffer along the Gendron roperty.
J. Belanger stated at this time there is no formal grading plan developed. The developer will try to reduce the water. Stated the abutters also wanted signs re Sharp Curve, etc.
3. Noted the proposed easement to the Town runs the length of the frontage to a point. This in addition to the dedication. Presently, there is no driveway profile for Lots 6 and 7.
4. Noted there will be guard rails where suggested (at corner, wetlands driveway).
5. Stated the lower driveway which was shared was moved down about 300 feet.
Brian Nordle suggested that the driveway location be brought directly across from the Stone Road/Guinea Road access so there is a safer situation. Felt it makes sense to bring them all together instead of having separate locations is such a close proximity.
Terry Swain asked about the line of sight and what the requirements are and what about from the “snow bank”, etc. J. Belanger stated there is 290 feet of sight distance from the edge of pavement. He stood on top of a snow bank and took the measurements. There is no loss of sight of a vehicle. (Requirements are 400 foot sight distance for a Town Road and 200 feet for a driveway location.)
Brian Nordle stated that the regulations include a Shared Driveway Policy and should be looked at this time. You would have to come off the corner at the top otherwise. Would rather see one driveway across from Guinea Road because it would be accessing at one point. This is my opinion.
J. Belanger stated there is a fairly substantial rise up to 12’ at this location. Would be quite a rise to get to the common driveway.
Brian Nordle stated he would still rather see the access at one point for safety reasons.
Michael Poirier stated that it probably makes more sense to have two driveways down there. If we did this, it would make for a three point entrance, and the Board may not like that.
6. Brian Nordle stated that the Conservation Commission is challenging the Wetlands
Permit. As yet, the applicant has not received Wetlands approval. (attached letter from
Michael Poirier stated the Conservation Commission wants him to go with a 1,700 foot road/driveway to access the lots.
J. Belanger stated they did look at other access points. Stated they tried to do the least invasive way to the wetlands. This is a six lot subdivision on 75 acres of land.
Abutters were read as follows and noted that all had been notified by certified mail:
Kenneth Swayze – Present. Stated that he thinks they are trying to do everything the Board is asking.
Robert/Joann Jergensen – Not Present
Nicholas/Bridgette Holmes – Not Present
Jeffery/Katherine Deacon – Not Present
Earle/Catherine Farley – Not Present
Kathleen Joan Desmarais – Present. Stated you mentioned this was a six lot subdivision. Why is there a Lot #7?
J. Belanger stated it was the way the lots are numbered for Tax Lot numbering system. The subdivision is for six lots.
K. Desmarais asked what the Board thinks of the safety issues in bad weather, etc.?
Brian Nordle stated there is no doubt this is not an optimum situation. We looked at the speed limit. The top area previously had been going to be accessed for more lots. They have knocked it down to two at the top now. The sight requirements for driveways is 200 feet. By knocking the third access to the bottom is better than forcing the three on the top. They do meet the requirements. Signage will help. This is no worse or any better than many driveways throughout Town now. This is a large chunk of land. There will be two remaining large lots. There is a 25 foot grade change. If you come down further that was more or less unacceptable . It is not a perfect situation, but I think it is manageable to access off there.
Richard/Sandra Gendron – Present. R. Gendron stated he would like to say that he doesn’t know how you can allow someone who works for Mr. Poirier to sit on the Board on this decision.
Brian Nordle stated that taking that point into consideration, the Planning Board will not be taking a vote this evening because they will not have a quorum without Mr. Swain’s vote. This will save any further debate on the subject.
Sandra Gendron questioned the length of the driveway for Lot 6 and 7. Asked how the wetlands setback would work. Asked what the distance was between our property line and the shared driveway?
J. Belanger stated it was about 340 feet off your lot line. The driveway will be 700 feet long. The Board indicated there are no driveway setbacks.
J. Belanger stated that the Wetlands is part of the Bela Brook Wetlands Conservation District and there must be a 125 foot setback from the wetlands, etc.
Richard Gendron asked about the possible dam that you are going to build for the driveway. How much fill will you be using?
J. Belanger stated it is not a dam. We calculate a l5% grade for a driveway. Stated they could profile the driveway if needed.
R. Gendron stated that a 40 foot run in 340 feet seems like a steep driveway to him.
Sue Bye – Not Present
Ryan C./ Marlo Nedwicke – Present. No comment.
Alma Kingsbury – Not Present
Carlos E. DelCarpio – Present. At one point, there was a plan with five lots with a private drive coming off the north end. What was the driving force ending that approach and going to the shared driveways?
J. Belanger stated that when the Board started reviewing the sight distance, they felt it was more of a road because there was 3-4 lots. We decided to go with two homes from one driveway instead.
DelCarpio stated it would seem to him that the private drive would be a better choice for the area. Stated they have the same problems for a shared driveway. Still have the safety issue. A private driveway would allow for this subdivision to have a better looking feel about it.
Brian Nordle noted that they rather do this than access four lots from the top at one point, it was viewed that it would be safer to access only two from the top. The Board has gotten into several projects on shared driveways. Have allowed shared driveways in the past but try to limit them, etc. There was an issue as to when does it become a shared road and when does it become a Town Road. We are using the shared driveway intent to try to accommodate the situation. It would be a roadway instead of a driveway with four lots off it. The intent of having a shared driveway is to use it to the Town’s advantage for safety reasons. Accessing four lots from the top was not to the Town’s advantage.
SPNHF- Not Present
Joe/Pam Milioto – Not Present
Melissa Rouillard/Gary Auclair – Not Present
Bertha Oertel – Present. Represented by Attorney Steve Buckley. Attorney Buckley asked to see the portion of the plan where the Oertel Lot is located. J. Belanger indicated these are portions of the large lots G4-3-9 (upper lot) and G4-3-10 (lower lot). Showed them on the plan. Attorney Buckley asked if the Town would receive any easements on these lots to assure that they not be further subdivided.
Jacques Belanger indicated they were part of the Bela Brook Corridor which falls into the 125 foot Wetlands Setback requirement.
Attorney Buckley asked if Lots 9 and 10 would be subject to potential subdivision at a later date. Would the developer be inclined to give an easement to the Town so they cannot be further subdivided? What about a no cut buffer which is being offered to the other abutter?
Michael Poirier stated he had no problem with offering a no cut buffer.
It was indicated the owner could apply for a wetlands crossing. The property to the west is tied up with an easement to SPNHF.
Christopher Long/Ann Hargrove – Not Present
Jean/Girard L. Meisner – Not Present
Stephen K. Buckley, Attorney – Present representing Oertel
J. E. Belanger Surveying – Present. Representing the applicant
Schauer Environmental Consultants – Not Present
Tom Manning – Present. No comments.
Other Members of the Public:
John Trottier – Asked about the driveway across from Guinea Road?
It was noted it was two shared driveways.
Brian Nordle indicated he had suggested that the driveways be located across from Guinea Road to form an intersection. Would be beneficial because of safety, etc.
Michael Poirer stated the Board would be creating a three way intersection on that road.
Brian Nordle stated it is always better to have driveways opposite each other. You are talking about one access that all are aware of. It is just good planning sense than having sporadic accesses.
Michael Poirier stated they will do it if the Board wants it.
Brian Nordle stated he agreed with coming down below for those lots as long as they are directly across from Guinea Road.
John Trottier stated he agreed with Mr. Nordle. Asked about the 200 sight distance.
J. Belanger stated that 290 feet is the least sight distance with snow banks.
John Trottier stated the Gendron’s have a valid concern about drainage.
Brian Nordle stated that drainage will not be increased. The driveway being proposed will create a ditch line. You are not going to increase the drainage. You are not going to add any additional runoff to the area.
It was noted by the Board that the Fire Chief is looking into a fire pond system similar to Chichester’s but has not gotten the specifications as yet.
M. Poirier stated he will dedicate frontage so there will be no further development of the larger lots.
Attorney Steve Buckley asked if he would convey that lot frontage to the Town.
Applicant stated he would be willing to do this but at a later date. They would have to totally redo their plans at this point if they did it now.
Attorney Buckley stated that he felt if there is an intent to do this, it should be revisited. If there is a possibility of a Conservation Easement and tying up the frontage, then the Board should consider it now.
Sandra Gendron – Asked about extending the driveway for lot 6 and 7 from the Guinea Road area instead of going next to our lot.
Mert Mann made a motion that the Dunbarton Planning Board continue the proposed New Hampshire Traditional Homes (Michael Poirier) (G4-3-2) six lot subdivision located on Grapevine Road in the Low Density District in Dunbarton, NH until the next regularly scheduled meeting in June. Alison Vallieres seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously.
It was noted for the record that there was not a quorum for the vote.
SITE PLAN REVIEW - DUNBARTON 88, LLC (B3-02-01, B4-01-11, A4-01-05, AND A3-01-04) PROPOSED WATCH HILL DEVELOPMENT-MULTI-FAMILY DEVELOPMENT LOCATED OFF ROUTE 13 IN THE LOW DENSITY DISTRICT IN DUNBARTON, NH. FOR SITE PLAN REVIEW. (05-001)
The two members, Kenneth Swayze and Michael Poirier stepped back to the Board.
At this point in the meeting, Mert Mann stated that at the last meeting he disclosed that he had an adult son working at the Golf Course part-time and did not feel it would interfere with his acting on the Golf Course proposal. This month he wanted to disclose that he also has an adult daughter working at the Golf Course part-time. He again stated that he did not feel this would affect his judgment in acting on the Golf Course proposal. The Board members agreed.
Kenneth Swayze presented a packet of information which included copies of letters received from Kerrie Diers, CNHRPC Planning Consultant and Don Mayo, Town Engineer. (attached) In addition, there were copies of correspondence from McCourt Engineering Associates and Maria Dolder, Attorney for Uchida. (attached)
Kenneth Swayze stated that one of the Outstanding Issues was the Development Entrance. (Note Kerri Diers correspondence, page 2, Item 2.) Don Mayo’s letter makes comments regarding the single entrance etc. on page 1. Dunbarton’s regulations require that there be a dual access road for more than 25 dwelling units.
Brian Nordle stated this is going to be an issue. If the applicants plan on doing this, they must apply for a Waiver and with that many units that may be difficult so you should think about the development having more than the single access. This is not a new issue.
Jennifer McCourt, Engineer, stated they began speaking about this at the last meeting. We feel it can be worked out. If we were required to put in a double barrel (lane) road, it would destroy the golf course. We are talking about upgrading Town Farm Road and Country Club Lane.
The Board noted that residents who lived on that road want it shut down and have written documentation stating this.
Jennifer McCourt stated that if we don’t come to a resolution of this issue there is no sense in doing any more engineering on the project. It doesn’t make any sense if we can’t get by this issue.
Kenneth Swayze noted this was indeed a big concern right from the beginning.
Maria Dolder, Attorney, stated that at the last Planning Board Meeting, Bob Pike had spoken about this issue. If we have to do a double access road, it will not be good for the golf course. The secondary access was going to serve the purpose. It will allow for emergency vehicles to travel. Everyone else seemed to think it was feasible. The Dunbarton Zoning Board of Adjustment determined that it should be gated, etc. We need to know what your position is before we go further.
Brian Nordle stated that you have to have more than a single access or ask for a Waiver. At the last meeting we never had a consensus as to whether it was to be closed, etc.
Kenneth Swayze stated we always critiqued this the Developers dual access design with a gated roadway prohibiting normal traffic. We do understand that this is a private roadway. This is not anything new. I disagree with the statement that this was not an issue. Roads are the jurisdiction of the Planning Board and not the Zoning Board of Adjustment. You are here before the Planning Board. Our regulations require two access ways. Every Department in Town is concerned in the same way. We have two outside consultants, Kerri Diers and Don Mayo, who agree that we need two access roads.
Maria Dolder, Attorney, stated they could address the safety question. That is the purpose we are coming here this evening.
J. McCourt stated they looked at the second access road. The board is telling us we need a Waiver for emergency purposes. At this point, she stated they would like to ask for a Waiver. She stated they have had discussions with the Fire Chief. All we really want to do is to stop people from using the road. This development is going to be maintaining the roadway. A simple chain is easy to remove. It would be a standard double plastic link which can easily be broken. The residents do not want to leave the road open.
Brian Nordle again stated they would have to apply for a Waiver for a single access.
Jennifer McCourt stated she had just received the consultants comments today. We have been talking with the Fire Chief and Town Officials regarding an emergency access. A dual access road would ruin the golf course.
Kenneth Swayze stated there needs to be safety issues addressed. Would recommend hiring a Life Safety Consultant at the developer’s expense. We have talked about that at the Board level. We would like to do this. We have Life Safety and Fire issues. Ken stated that speaking for himself, we need appropriate technical assistance. We need to look for good direction from the experts.
Ken noted that both Don Mayo and Central Regional Planning Commission have suggested that we might need a Life Safety Consultant. We have a group who will be able to talk with you.
J. McCourt stated this is a make or break point on this project. There is no point in having a consultant if this issue cannot be worked out.
J. McCourt stated she did not think Bob Pike has a problem with a Life Safety Consultant as long as we get the Waiver. If we don’t get the Waiver, it is a problem. Stated that if there are other issues, we would appreciate knowing. We need to know where we are going.
The Board advised her to continue with her presentation. They noted there may be other issues with parking, sidewalks, lighting, etc.
Brian Nordle stated that the Waiver must be formally submitted to the Board in writing.
Jennifer McCourt presented the proposal as follows:
1. Stated that with regard to the 100 foot radius at the lower roadway, we took your suggestions to heart. We have moved buildings around so when actually coming around the curve of the turn, you will have the sight distance. Actually took a fire truck out to the parking lot to make sure it would make the corner, etc.
2. We have also added eleven (11) parking spaces along the edge of the pavement. Each unit has two spaces in front and the two spaces in the garage. The extra eleven spaces will bring us up higher. The residents are not allowed to have four wheelers, boats, to detract from the development. Most of condo residents don’t have five or six vehicles on site.
3. With regard to the detention pond, we have designed it so it is a standard above ground pond instead of in-ground.
4. Asked if Dunbarton Town Counsel has reviewed the Condo Documents yet.
5. Noted that new plan shows the air strip.
6. Stated that the temporary waivers are still requested to remain in effect for bearing, distances on open space areas, addition of roadway centerline data, and exact material of landscaping and individual roadway cross sections. These can be done once all the other issues are decided upon. Will be graded around the individual units.
7. Noted that the life safety issue and access are the most important at this time.
At this point in the discussion, Bob Pike stated we have worked with the Board, and on the radius, they took the fire equipment to see if it worked. The residents don’t want parking of vehicles along the street. They don’t even want to leave trash cans out. They don’t want things hanging around. What we are trying to do here is we don’t want them having all that stuff. They don’t even mow their own lawns or snowplow. Someone else does it. These people are going to enforce these issues. They have the time to enforce.
Terry Swain stated you have been to 30 of these type of developments? Asked if he had built them.
Mr. Pike stated that this is the second one he has built. The first one is in Bow. It is the “Pines” in Bow, NH.
Michael Poirier stated that with regard to the two accesses, I don’t feel that we have gone far enough at this point. I don’t know if we have to define it more. The requirement is to have two points for people to enter and exit the project. You can put two lanes side by side on the entrance road. You have said that it will “screw up” the golf course. Why can’t you have 100 – 200 feet length of split access roadway?
Kenneth Swayze stated that we allow 25 units on a single access roadway. This is the largest development for Dunbarton consisting of 83 units. Dunbarton is actually very lenient. Bow only allows 12 units and Hooksett only allow ten units or limited length.
Brian Nordle stated that if there is a fire and for some reason that road is closed, you don’t have dual access.
J. McCourt stated that could happen on any road. From a practical standpoint, what is the chances of it not being open. People are not going to hang a left. The real concern from the abutters is stopping the Golf Course people from going out there. We would be putting some sort of barrier just to stop people from going there. That is why we are looking at something extremely simple. We can put this directly into the Condo Documents. With 83 units they are going to abide by this because it is part of the development. Stated an instance where she was present where parking was on one side going into a soccer event, and people were parked all the way down the road. She told them that emergency vehicles can’t get down the road. All it took was one person asking not to park there. The next time they did not park there. We have to train them not to do this. They can only park on one side of the road here.
Bob Pike stated the dual access is an issue. We will take a closer look at that. The extra 15’ for a roadway will kill us. This is an important issue. This Golf Course is valuable to the Town. Stated that at the last meeting, Jim Marcou stated that “if you can cover it that the Town is not liable for anything happening, etc.”
The question was asked as to the length of the single access roadway coming in.
J. McCourt stated the length of the roadway is approximately 1500 feet.
Abutters were read as follows and noted that all had been notified by certified mail:
Hammond Revocable Trust – Not Present
Glenn Doten – Not Present
Keith/Jennifer Lavoie – Not Present
Joseph/Kathryn Azotea – Not Present
Arvid/Betsy Rain – Not Present
Glenn/Wendy Flaherty – Not Present
Julia/Arthur Thomas – Not Present
Mary Story Heirs – Not Present
George/Carolyn Cushman – Not Present
Walter Smith/Nancy Kapisky – Not Present
Jeffrey/Evelyn Kantor – Not Present
Kevin/Marie McCarthy – Present. No Comments.
Rene/Ruth Norbert – Not Present
Paul/Robin Nelson – Not Present
Nicole French – Not Present
Benjamin/Mary Horn – Not Present
M. Curtis/Tommy Whittaker – Not Present
John/Kathleen Mazalewski – Not Present. Sent letter which Brian Nordle read for the record. (attached)
Henry/Joan Burnham – Not Present
Charles/Nancy Graybill – Not Present
Thomas/Melissa Maille – Not Present
Town of Goffstown – Not Present
Theresa Naser – Not Present
David Maceachran – Not Present
J & J Realty Trust – Not Present
Kenneth/Jennifer Proulx – Not Present
Mary Jane Caron Trust – Present. Stated that the second roadway is almost camouflaged. If you are putting a lot of weight on this second access requirement, we are going to lose the whole project.
A.C. Engineering – Not Present
McCourt Engineering – Present. Representing the applicant.
Schauer Environmental Consultants – Not Present.
J. E. Belanger Surveying – Present. Representing the applicant.
Town of Dunbarton – Present. (Selectman present)
Ken Swayze noted that regarding Regional Impact, the Southern New Hampshire Regional Planning Commission had been notified by certified mail also. In addition, they received copies of the plans.
Kevin McCarthy stated that with regard to the gate, etc. there is nothing not permitting the gating of the road. There never was a stipulation that the road be permanently gated.
It was pointed out that the Dunbarton Zoning Board had made this a condition of their decision.
There being no further public comment, the public hearing was closed.
Brian Nordle stated that it is apparent that the abutters are for this subdivision and have followed the evidence just by the mere lack of their presence at this meeting. I am sure that if everyone puts their heads together, we can work out the access. The smaller issues such as lighting, sidewalks, etc. can be worked out.
Kenneth Swayze made a motion that the Dunbarton Planning Board hire SFC Engineering Company, Manchester, NH as a Life Safety Consultant with all costs to be paid by the applicant. Mert Mann seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously.
Kenneth Swayze made a motion that the Dunbarton Planning Board continue the Site Plan Review Public Hearing (Watchill Development) until next month. The motion was seconded and passed unanimously.
GERALD GELINAS AND DONALD PERKINS (B2-1-1 & 2) PROPOSED TWO LOT SUBDIVISION AND LOT LINE ADJUSTMENT LOCATED ON GORHAM POND ROAD IN THE LOW DENSITY DISTRICT IN DUNBARTON, NH
At this point in the meeting, Michael Poirier stepped down from the Board because of abutter status.
Kenneth Swayze presented a Status Report for the Gelinas/Perkins proposed subdivision and lot line adjustment. (attached)
Kenneth Swayze noted that the application has no status because the last extension granted ran out on May 3, 2005. The only way the Planning Board can discuss the proposal this evening would be as a “non-binding with no legal status” discussion. The Planning Board was not aware of this fact until today.
J. Belanger, Surveyor, stated that there have been no new plans submitted.
The Planning Board noted the following:
1. With regards to the wetlands crossing, it has not been submitted to the State.
2. Box cars should be shown on the plan.
3. The applicants will have to request an extension from the Planning Board.
At this point in the discussion, the applicants requested a 90 day extension.
Mert Mann made a motion that the Dunbarton Planning Board request a 90 day extension for the Gelinas/Perkins Proposed Subdivision and Lot Line Adjustment. Alison Vallieres seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously.
The Secretary will request a 90 day extension from the Board of Selectmen.
4. Alison Vallieres stated she had been in contact with Town Counsel and Town Counsel’s opinion is that Mr. Gelinas cannot subdivide a junk yard because of required setbacks of 125 feet, etc. and other State Statutes relating to junk yards. The land he is subdividing has vehicles on it which should be removed before subdividing. The box cars have to go. Mr. Gelinas should either clean up his property or run a junk yard. He cannot do both.
CONCEPTUAL PLAN REVIEW, NON-BINDING DISCUSSION: PROPOSED 22 LOT SUBDIVISION/PRD ON GRAPEVINE ROAD, MAP 13, LOT 6, BLOCK 3 (FORMER LORDEN PROPERTY)
Chris Nadeau appeared before the Board on behalf of the applicants. (attached) He stated that this parcel has been granted a Special Exception in 1989 for 26 lots. The Planning Board had rescinded their approval of the project in 1995. It came back in 1998 and was granted a Special Exception for 22 lots.
The applicants stated they have changed nothing and it is exactly the same development that was proposed in 1998. The lots range in size from 2 ½ acres up, etc. The plan showed a 50 foot ROW on the south and on the north to access property for development in the future.
The Planning Board suggested the applicants make a courtesy visit to the Zoning Board to see if the plan is acceptable to them. The Planning Board is bound by the Zoning Board’s approval. Also are bound by any new regulations that apply to subdivisions, roads, etc.
The Board noted this would have a Regional Impact to the Town of Bow which should be notified along with the Central New Hampshire Regional Planning Commission.
The Board noted that the wetlands should be reflagged in accordance with the 125 foot Wetlands Conservation District Setback.
There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at 9:45 p.m.
Alison R. Vallieres